Saturday 19 January 2013

Putting The Best Talent On The Ice

Several roster announcements caught my attention this past week, particularly those involving enforcers.  All of the teams talked about adding “grit”, or making them “tough to play against” or “creating room for their skilled players”.  I wondered about the talent that wouldn’t make the team because of a role player who would see limited minutes on the 4th line.


I don’t get why general managers and coaches ignore superior talent in favor of using a spot on their roster for a big guy who is willing to take punches to the head.   How much “grit” ends up on the ice when they actively limit their TOI to reduce the team’s liability to giving up a goal or taking a dumb penalty?   They are only “tough to play against” if they aren’t in the press box.   Skilled players don’t get any extra space to make plays when the enforcer is stuck on the end of the bench or on the 4th line.  And if these role players are so important, why are they almost always benched once the playoffs start?

I took a couple of hours today and looked at 3 teams that have announced an “enforcer” type player has made the roster for opening day.  Below each of the players I have provided their stats for the previous few seasons along with a media article with some background.   For each of the teams I have selected one player who did not make the roster and who appears, at least on paper, that they would have been the smarter choice.  It’s not an in-depth study, as most NHL teams have a large number of prospects, but it does provide a comparison of talent.

Colorado Avalanche - Patrick Bordeleau

Season
Team
Lge
GP
G
A
Pts
PIM
2008-09
Albany River Rats
AHL
6
0
2
2
21
2008-09
Florida Everblades
ECHL
29
4
9
13
81
2008-09
Springfield Falcons
AHL
4
0
0
0
4
2008-09
Lake Erie Monsters
AHL
3
0
1
1
17
2008-09
Milwaukee Admirals
AHL
2
0
0
0
0
2009-10
Lake Erie Monsters
AHL
60
1
2
3
106
2010-11
Lake Erie Monsters
AHL
72
2
10
12
125
2011-12
Lake Erie Monsters
AHL
52
4
4
8
96
 
 
 
228
11
28
39
450

Originally selected in the 4th round of the 2004 draft by Minnesota, Bordeleau has bounced around in the minors before being given a chance with Colorado this season.  As noted in a recent article in the Denver Post, "He paid his dues in the minors, fought everybody.”   That’s a pretty good reason right there to make room on the roster for a player who picks up a point every 5.5 games.

So who did Colorado leave off of their opening day roster to make room for Bordeleau?

Brad Malone

Season
Team
Lge
GP
G
A
Pts
PIM
2008-09
University Of North Dakota
WCHA
41
5
12
17
75
2009-10
University Of North Dakota
WCHA
43
11
14
25
102
2010-11
University Of North Dakota
WCHA
43
16
24
40
108
2011-12
Avalanche
NHL
9
0
2
2
0
2011-12
Lake Erie Monsters
AHL
67
11
25
36
89
 
 
 
203
43
77
120
374

Here is the analysis from Mile High Hockey on Brad Malone:

Malone projects to be a solid third/fourth line winger, who can chip in offensively and is a solid contributor on the penalty kill. He isn't afraid to use his size and that has gotten him in trouble on occasion.

Sounds like Colorado could have added some grit with Malone as a power forward who has some upside on offense.  The big downside is that he hasn’t fought everybody. 


Buffalo Sabres - John Scott

Season
Team
Lge
GP
G
A
Pts
PIM
2007-08
Houston Aeros
AHL
64
3
0
3
184
2008-09
Minnesota Wild
NHL
20
0
1
1
21
2008-09
Houston Aeros
AHL
44
2
2
4
111
2009-10
Minnesota Wild
NHL
51
1
1
2
90
2010-11
Chicago Blackhawks
NHL
40
0
1
1
72
2011-12
Chicago Blackhawks
NHL
29
0
1
1
48
2011-12
New York Rangers
NHL
6
0
0
0
5
 
 
 
254
6
6
12
531

According to media reports John Scott was signed last summer primarily to play against the hated Boston Bruins.  This is Buffalo’s belated response to the Milan Lucic hit on Ryan Miller that sidelined their star goalie last season.  You would be hard pressed to find someone to praise his hockey skills and, outside of games against the Bruins, it’s likely he’ll spend a lot of time in the press box.

So who did Buffalo leave off of their opening day roster to make room for Scott?

Adam Luke

Season
Team
Lge
GP
G
A
Pts
PIM
2007-08
St. John's Fog Devils
QMJHL
70
36
30
66
72
2008-09
Junior de Montreal
QMJHL
47
22
27
49
59
2009-10
Cape Breton Screaming Eagles
QMJHL
56
49
41
90
75
2010-11
Sabres
NHL
19
3
1
4
12
2010-11
Portland Pirates
AHL
57
29
33
62
46
2011-12
Sabres
NHL
52
10
10
20
14
2011-12
Rochester Americans
AHL
27
4
9
13
18
 
 
 
328
153
151
304
296

Here is the analysis from Hockey’s Future on Adam Luke:

Coming out of Junior it was thought that Adam had a limited game, with little upside at the NHL level because of his weak skating. However he is very good in front of the net, and uses his size to his advantage as his ability to muck in the corners and chip away at rebounds can be an important asset. Where he was once considered a role player at best in the NHL, most talent evaluators will tell you that after winning the AHL rookie of the year award last season, Adam will be a future second liner in the NHL.  He did not look out of place in the NHL and his skating has improved a lot since the beginning of 2010-11. Look for Adam to play center or wing on one of the Sabres bottom two lines to start and then make his way up the depth chart with his goal scoring ability.

So Buffalo won’t see a real hockey player, who has worked hard on his skills, get a chance to prove themselves on the team.  Instead they will be subjected to Scott taking a run at Lucic in an effort to justify his existence in the league.  Sabres fans need to ask themselves; are we interested in winning or in getting even?   


Edmonton Oilers - Ben Eager

Season
Team
Lge
GP
G
A
Pts
PIM
2008-09
Chicago Blackhawks
NHL
75
11
4
15
161
2009-10
Chicago Blackhawks
NHL
60
7
9
16
120
2010-11
Atlanta Thrashers
NHL
34
3
7
10
77
2010-11
San Jose Sharks
NHL
34
4
3
7
43
2011-12
Edmonton Oilers
NHL
63
8
5
13
107
 
 
 
266
33
28
61
508

Ben Eager made headlines during the lock-out by being charged with assault because of a bar fight in Toronto.  Eager is keen to prove he can help the Edmonton Oilers as the Edmonton Sun reported last week.  The article talked about Eager’s disappointment about his previous season and the fact that former Coach Tom Renney did not have much use for him as a player.  A rousing endorsement for making room on the roster for his “talent”.

So who did Edmonton leave off of their opening day roster to make room for Eager?

Curtis Hamilton

Season
Team
Lge
GP
G
A
Pts
PIM
2008-09
Saskatoon Blades
WHL
58
20
28
48
24
2009-10
Saskatoon Blades
WHL
26
7
9
16
6
2010-11
Saskatoon Blades
WHL
62
26
56
82
22
2011-12
Oklahoma City Barons
AHL
41
5
6
11
8
 
 
 
187
58
99
157
60

Here is an analysis from Hockey’s Future on Curtis Hamilton:

Hamilton has solid offensive skills, but thrives in a power-forward role. He excels at using his big frame effectively and efficiently. His defensive awareness is above average, particularly for a young player, and his willingness to get his nose dirty without taking unnecessary penalties will serve him well. He is the kind of hard working player who can contribute in any situation that coaches love.  It's unclear whether he will bring enough offense at the NHL level to be a true top six forward, however his game is perfectly suited for a third line role if the offense is found wanting. He plays a physical, responsible, two way game and brings a high level of consistent effort every night.

Edmonton is expected to have a lot of offense but they will likely be challenged at keeping the puck out of their own net as well.  Surely they could have used a power forward that is also good defensively, perhaps giving them more depth at killing penalties.  But they will have to settle for a liability on the ice because they believe that his style of game will provide more skating room for their young stars.


As long as general managers and coaches continue to buy into the perception that enforcers make their team better (or tougher, or safer) then players with real ability are going to languish in the minors.  Making a roster decision based on a pair of fists versus a set of good hands seems like a poor way to build a winner.

7 comments:

  1. But as in past articles, I don't believe you are giving a complete picture of your argument:

    Patrick Bordeleau vs. Brad Malone: How sure are you that Malone is really ready for the NHL level of play? Slightly over 0.5 PPG at the AHL level is definitely good, but not an indisputable sign of current/future greatness. Any player with only one season as a pro has room to improve and adapt, and for a borderline player the AHL is a better place to earn that confidence. In addition, Bordeleau's first game? In his (limited) ice time, he had two shots and generated a scoring play for McLeod for a plus one rating.

    John Scott vs. Adam Luke: By far the most difficult of the three to reconcile, but any team playing the Flyers I can understand looking for a little extra muscle. This also is on the tail of last season when opponents had free reign to run Miller, and in today's custom Ruff and Regier have decided that having fighters and pests will counteract that.

    Ben Eager vs. Curtis Hamilton: Ben Eager is a former Stanley Cup winner on a team of young kids. He may not be the role model for them on the ice, but he brings a solid veteran presence to the locker room. A quote from the article you cited indicates he is ready to be that:

    "Everyone wants an increased role but you have to earn it. After last year I have a lot to earn. I'm getting to be one of the older guys in this dressing room. I have to show a good work ethic every day and do the things that I do — be physical, get in on the forecheck, bring it every game and be there for my teammates."

    Add into that, as with Brad Malone, that Hamilton is in only his second pro season (with 4 points in 32 games of AHL play this season....), he may not be ready to make the jump. Eager didn't see a lot of ice in EDM's first game, but 2 shots, 1 blocked shot and 3 hits against the Sedins' line is a vote of confidence for the future.

    Although I understand your point with this post, your argument is flawed when looking at the larger picture, which I think is an overall weakness of the antifighting agenda. There were legitimate reasons to play each of the three players you are concerned about, and legitimate reasons to leave the other three players down in the AHL.

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    Replies
    1. I agree it's not a complete picture, and I stated that it was not an indepth study. I took a few hours and quickly reviewed some of their prospects in the system. Even with that quick look I think I was able to provide solid statistics that the teams are leaving better hockey players off their NHL roster in favour of fists.

      Most of what you post above is your opinion and I respect that. But they are not facts. And the premise of the post was that teams, for whatever reasons they feel are legitimate, will leave better hockey players in the minors to make room for a 4th line or occasional role player. I don't doubt that GMs and Coaches believe that a designated fighter is needed, because they have come up in a system and culture that promotes that. But I would be more inclined to believe in that strategy if there were any facts that would support it. Unfortunately all you get is percpetion and opinion. Every fact based study that I have done or posted about, or read on other blogs and media sites, demonstrates that fighting hurts teams more than it helps.

      BTW - I appreciate your comments. I don't mind opposing views and in fact welcome them, as long as they are well articulated and civil.

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    2. I hope it doesn’t come off like I’m just here to cause trouble. I don’t fully understand the strongly antifighting stance taken by many people, I’m here to learn more about it, using my evidence for fighting (I do strongly support keeping fighting in the NHL, if you hadn’t noticed) as counterargument. I’ve seen a lot of the statistics you’ve presented, but I disagree that they demonstrate fighting as a detriment more than a benefit. They absolutely support that goons and players who are strictly enforcers detract from their team, and on that point I absolutely agree with you. However, the statistics only support that players like Cam Janssen and Stu Grimson don’t belong in the NHL. My counterarguments attempt to support that players like Marty McSorely, Milan Lucic, Brandon Prust, and others who contribute more than fist throwing, but throw fists quite well, are still very valuable to their teams.

      There’s no doubt that both of us are only presenting opinions, but in two of the cases you mention, you are talking about bringing a player that may not be ready for the speed and physicality of the NHL and, basically throwing him to the dogs. Consider Nino Niederreiter of the NY Isles. He was too early in his development and has only contributed one and three points in 64 games across two seasons, and was (if you believe in advanced stats) the worst player in the league last season. Although his skill set was greater than the John Scott/Ben Eager types (Bordeleau is somewhat of a different case), he brought far far less to the Islanders when called up than they can bring to the Sabres/Oilers. If I were an NHL GM, I would put Hamilton and Malone in Niederreiter’s category and would likely have made the same decisions.

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    3. TLH - Your responses come across as well-thought out and I think they add value to the site. It's better to collect a wide variety of opinions - as long as it's civil and contributes to the discussion.

      Although I advocate the elimination of fighting I would be the first to admit that it would be impossible, just as it still exists in baseball, basketball and football despite stricter penalties. I would prefer to see an immediate game misconduct for a fight and perhaps additional discipline when a player has accumulated 5 fights. That would put an end to the enforcer who is put on the ice for the opening face-off for one reason. Teams would be a lot less inclined to waste a roster spot on those roles and instead use real hockey players. But players like Lucic wouldn't disappear and if they feel a fight is really, really necessary then they will drop the gloves knowing the consequences. Under those rules we would see more hockey and less meaningless fights that have nothing to do with the actual play.

      Games would have to be called much tighter, as they are in the playoffs, so that players know a cheap shot will send the opposing player to the penalty box. A lot of fights are a symptom of cheap shos that are not called and eventually the enforcer is sent out to exact revenge.

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    4. I've very much enjoyed reading this blog, as it is very informative, so thank you for writing it.

      The biggest hurdle I see in implementing a plan with such stiff consequences (full game for any fight, supplemental after 5 fights) is that there simply aren't 700 players that have NHL caliber talent and are mature enough to play in a fast physical league. Sticking with Lucic, let's say the Bruins play the Sabres. Regier knows he needs a physical game to match up against the likes of Lucic, Marchand, etc. so he dresses John Scott instead of Adam Luke (who is apparently still shying away from contact down in Rochester). Scott gets caught out on the ice against the Lucic/Bergeron/Seguin line and does anything he can to keep Seguin off the puck, accidentally hitting him in the head unnoticed by the refs. Even if the Shanaban comes down on him, Scott helped his team by dispatching a top scorer, unintentional though it may be. So Lucic will probably deem a fight as necessary to show that the Bruins can't be pushed around like that, but you're now asking the Bruins to be down two 60 point scorers to the Sabres being down one John Scott, and you've inadvertently rewarded the Sabres for dressing a goon. I'm all for increasing the penalty of fighting, not at the cost of handcuffing players that serve multiple purposes, the same way I wouldn't advocate a one game suspension every time a pitcher throws a ball inside in baseball.

      The place for increased penalties, possibly even instant game misconducts, is in Juniors. As you've mentioned, a lot of Junior Hockey Leagues are trying to crack down on fighting as a safety precaution. If players can see at an early age that dropping the gloves is not a ticket to the NHL, but rather an adjunct to an already high skill level, I think we would see a sharp decline in less meaningful fights between bit players. The trouble in the present is that there is no way to distinguish punishments between players with a role in their team's strategy and those sent on the ice as every fan just prays they don't screw up.

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    5. The attitude that "dispatching" the opponent's top scorer is helping your team is ultimately part of the problem.

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  2. If I am to be expected, as a fan, to spend over $100 per ticket plus parking, exorbitant refreshment prices, etc. to attend an NHL game, then I absolutely expect to see the best players in the world including especially the top scorers (from both teams).

    I work hard for my money, and when I spend my entertainment dollar on, let's say, Blackhawks-Penquins tickets weeks or more before the game, I don't want to discover that I won't be watching Hossa, Toews, Crosby, etc. that night because Raffi Torres put them out of commission for that game (and others). Injuries are one thing; injuries from goons and cheap shot artists is another.

    If players subject to supplemental discipline had to sit out as long as the player they injure plus additional time for the cheap shot act itself, retaliation a la "the Code" might not seem necessary to a rational team that wants to win hockey games.

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